Becoming Comfortable with the Uncomfortable: an Interview with Isabella Preisz
Isabella Preisz enjoys spaghetti, Danish summers, and poetry in the bathtub. She explores the topics of identity, sexuality, & shame. In 2016, she self-published her first book, 7,300 days, which has sold more than 10,000 copies worldwide. As a graduate from the University of Southern California, she was the recipient of the 2019 University of Edinburgh Fellowship, Jimmy Gaunt Memorial Award, and the Gene and Etta Silverman Award.
[UNPUBLISHED:] Tell us about yourself.
[ISABELLA:] My name is Isabella. I’m from Westlake Village, it’s a small suburb outside of Los Angeles. I studied creative writing so I consider myself a writer and a poet. I would consider myself first and foremost an observer, because I think to be able to write poetry, you have to watch, before you speak. Listen, before you respond.
[UNPUBLISHED:] Tell us about your journey writing poetry.
[ISABELLA:] I started writing poetry as soon as I had access to a journal. I don't know if at the time I knew what I was doing, but I was definitely writing poetry. Emily Dickinson would write little things down and then shove them away in her drawers. That's kind of how it formed for me. I started taking it seriously when I turned 17. I was in my first year of university and I couldn't find a way to connect with myself other than when I was alone and writing about the depth of what I was experiencing. I went to UCSB my first year of college and I found it extremely difficult to relate to the people around me because it was such a party environment. I wasn't interested in going to school for that reason. Everyone there seemed like that’s why they were there so I used poetry as a way to connect with the reason I was at school which was to think and ponder and work through issues and heal. The summer going into my second year of university I dropped out of UCSB and I went to Bali with money I was supposed to use for summer school. I started writing every single morning and finally thought “Okay, this is my future, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.” That was about a month or two months before I started applying to school for creative writing and then I got into a program at the University of Southern California, and I've pretty much been doing it ever since.
[UNPUBLISHED:] Tell us about your writing process.
[ISABELLA:] It's different in each phase of my life. My first collection is pretty thick and the second one is the classic poetry collection size. My first book was journalistic, not in terms of journalism but journalistic in terms of the process being more free-flowing. For the second collection, one poem took me as long as it took me to write one section of the first book. The poems are a lot more studied and specific. The process for writing the first one was a lot more freeing and the second one was a lot more focused. My whole body would feel exhausted after writing because I was so hyper-focused. In the process for both there was an overarching feeling that was very cathartic and every time I approached the page, it would be okay to exhale and let it out.
[UNPUBLISHED:] Tell us about your new book, hours inside out.
[ISABELLA:] My second book is everything I didn't write about in my first book. It’s the subject matter I felt I hadn't fully grasped and didn't have the language for. I was trying to get at this feeling of “what hasn't been said? What are the most uncomfortable topics I've been holding inside of myself that I've been so afraid to touch, that I've been so held back from exploring?” What better way to explore them than to write a book about it? This book is about my coming to terms with healing from sexual assault and how the experience of not having been empowered to use the word “no” can leave you feeling as though you have no autonomy, no agency. You are living your life as, not only two separate people, but multiple separate people. The main focus is dissociation. As you flip through the book, you can see I have a lot of spaces internally inside of the stanzas, they’re called caesuras and I use that throughout the book to show how memory and time are constantly be jumping between the two, especially for victims of sexual assault. Our reality is so shattered because we're constantly living this private life — what we know has happened to us — but this public life that no one around us knows. When I went to university. I didn’t feel like being self-published was recognized or respected. Some of the faculty in my program were like, “You were self-published? Cool, anyone can do that.” And I was like, “Okay, well, I'm gonna show you I can also be accepted into literary circles and be taken seriously because it's not easy to write a book.” That's why when young writers reach out to me and they say, “I don't know what to do if I don't get published,” I'm like, getting self-published is such a big accomplishment, regardless of who's accepting you and regardless of the literary circles. Put your voice and narrative out there. It's important. That's what we need, we need to be supporting narratives regardless of a publishing deal or not. That being said, hours inside out is published by the press Not a Cult which specializes in marginalized voices and they're a small press.
[UNPUBLISHED:] We noticed from your Instagram that you travel a lot. Has changing your surroundings affected your writing?
[ISABELLA:] Yes, absolutely. Ever since I was little I've been obsessed with the feeling of being on an airplane. I have family living in Denmark so I pay for my plane ticket and go live in my uncle's house for however long. The reason why I travel so much is because being at home in LA, the nature of the city is so splintering, there are so many pockets of identities that I occupy. I am so many people at once. For me, it's like a wheel, it's a constant vertigo, so when I travel, I feel like I can just settle into this singularity with myself. And with inhabiting that singularity, I feel like I can time travel into memories and access myself more easily. Solitude is so important and helpful during the writing process. But, naturally, I do feel like it's hard for me to be alone. I'm a Libra so my natural state is wanting people around me. Writing hours inside out, I was grappling with my relationship with my dad. He's from Copenhagen and connected to that, I was grappling with the idea that America just takes its hand and wipes away all types of differences. I've never understood what my Danish culture meant to me and what it meant to my dad. He talks about where he's from but I never really understood what that meant. So to understand him, I wanted to go back to where he grew up to then try to live through his childhood. I talk about that in the book, how I don't think I would have had the access to understanding and forgiving and loving him in the nuanced way of how it is to love a parent, if I didn't understand what it was that created him. It's different. It's different over there.
[UNPUBLISHED:] From the first book going into the second book, has growing up changed the content you talk about and the topics you explore?
[ISABELLA:] In my first book, I talked about my relationship with my best friend, my boyfriend at the time, and how my identity was so tied to him. At the time I didn't necessarily understand the larger societal pressure of what it is to be a woman in this world. I did still touch on my sexuality because I do identify as a queer woman. I was connected to that, but I was afraid, and I mean I still don't feel fully safe expressing that in certain communities. I was chipping away at something, but I didn't even know what I was chipping away at and then settling more and more into it, I thought, “Okay, these are the topics I'm willing to explore.” For my first book, I didn't even talk about it in interviews, the depth of what I had experienced as a child and how I was affected by that in my later age. I still think, even in my second book, I still have a lot more work to do and a lot more exploration inside of myself and in the world, a lot more to learn. The main themes of my writing will more than likely always explore, shame, sexuality, sex politics and feminism.
[UNPUBLISHED:] How did you go from being a self-published author to being represented by a publishing company?
[ISABELLA:] I self-published the book 7,300 Days before I went away to school. Literally the semester before I went back to learn what creative writing was, I put this book out and I had no expectations. I thought, “You know what, this is what I've always wanted to do so why not?” It sold fairly well, I think today it’s sold over 10,000 copies worldwide. I met this girl named Rhiannon McGavin, she's a poet, she's so talented, an incredible poet. I met her at a party and we just sat in the back room for two hours just talking about poetry, and we kind of just stayed connected ever since. Then I had been posting, two summers after that, I was putting a manuscript out because I was going to self publish my second book. She said “Hey, I see you're gonna write another book. Can I jump on a phone call with you?” I said “Yeah, of course.” I was walking into a lecture and she said “I'm working with a press and we want to publish you.” I stopped walking, and said, “Wait, can you repeat that sentence. You want to do what with my work?” I still had a full year of school left and they wanted to publish me. I was so scared in that moment and shocked and excited. Your last year of college is the hardest year not only because the coursework is so hard but also you're having an existential crisis about what it means to be going into the world, there's so many things on. I told them I would have the manuscript to them in a year. And I thought they were going to want to drop me at that point and they said “Okay, cool. We will slate a spot for you in the next catalog.” Moral of the story is I met someone at a party, she saw I was self-published, she started working for a press and I got a publishing deal through that. The number one thing I can say to young writers, and myself, is it always matters that you're putting your work out there and it always matters that you're staying connected with people in your community because she is someone I met randomly and connected with, and she gave me that opportunity which I am so forever grateful for.
[UNPUBLISHED:] How did you gain a following?
[ISABELLA:] I've always had such a strange relationship with Instagram because the only way it works for me is when I'm telling a story on there or putting my writing up. I have been actually losing followers for a year now which I think has a lot to do with what Facebook is doing to the platform. I think they’re money driven like crazy and they have truly ruined the community aspect of what Instagram was when I first published my book because it was a community, and I mean it still is, we're seeing right now how powerful our platforms are and it's not a reason to not use them. The times I'm being the most honest, open, and transparent are the times I'm growing, and that was really hard to do for a segment of time when I was writing this manuscript because I wasn't being that with myself because of the depth of what I was going through and how hard it was to even exist in a physical space with other people. The growing also happens when you’re putting projects out. Talking to people and connecting with people as much as you physically can is really important, that's what the platform is for, it's for conversations and talking in any possible way.
[UNPUBLISHED:] Has having a large following on Instagram brought new readers to your work who might not have known you are a writer?
[ISABELLA:] I would say yes, especially when I am facilitating conversations around the themes and the topics that are being explored in my books. That's when you bring new people in because, for me, it's not about the capitalistic side of what it means to sell a book. It's about holding conversations about what consent means and what “no” means and why we're not empowered to say those things to each other. I want to hold conversations around that and I also want people to read it so they feel connected to what the story means.
[UNPUBLISHED:] How has the experience differed from you being self-published and now being represented by Not A Cult?
[ISABELLA:] As a new writer I really love self-publishing. I love having full control over the entire project. For my first book, I designed the cover with an illustrator, I told him exactly what I wanted. I didn't feel like I had to negotiate. I just did it. When you're working with a publisher – and this isn't saying it was a negative aspect, it's just different – you have to negotiate at times. Every single step of the cover of my second book was a negotiation because it had to represent the press and it also had to represent me. As a new writer, I recommend self-publishing because you experience every aspect of making a book. The other thing that was very different and was also very valuable was working with an editor. I worked with this incredible editor named Safia. She gave really great insight and that was incredible because for my first book, I didn't have a writing community yet. I was the editor. Also, a big difference is marketing. It's helpful to have a press because, to be completely fair, setting up readings by yourself, setting up anything and everything is fairly time consuming and hard. I just love the community aspect of being signed with a press. I do recommend self-publishing, for the first time. Don't think just because you don't have a publishing deal, you can't write. All of the ways of sharing are important and valid and you're doing the world a disservice by not putting it out there and allowing the community to connect to it and feel it.
[UNPUBLISHED:] Do you always write from personal experience or are there some writings that are fictional in a way?
[ISABELLA:] I have written fiction before. I love it after I'm done. I love editing, but writing fiction itself, I think it’s so hard. I have so much respect for fiction writers, just because of how intricate and detailed it is. Writing fiction has influenced my poetry so much because before I thought it had to be so literal and so true to what had happened. Having that level of imagination fiction empowers you with has really influenced my work. I would say all writing in some capacity comes from experience or observation. I don't want to limit myself and say I'll always write from experience, but I do think in some capacity all writing is autobiographical. I don’t want that to be the centralized focus, but I definitely want the reader to grapple with that.
[UNPUBLISHED:] A lot of your poems revolve around assault, sex, and what it's like growing up being a woman. How have your family and your friends reacted to you exploring those topics?
[ISABELLA:] For my first book, I wanted my parents to see what I could be in this world. That I could be a writer and that my words would be received by other people. I tied this really neat bow at the end of my book because I thought that to be seen, I had to be soft and light. But that's not the ending my second book because I think dealing with the aftermath of sexual assault, it's not, “Okay, I'm healed.” It's something you live with every single day. Hours inside out gets into the hornet's nest, sits there, and says, “This is what I've been dealing with.” Giving that to my parents was definitely the scariest part of the collection. Once I had it in my hand, that was when I showed it to my dad. I pointed out the poems that were about him and our relationship and he started crying and he said that it wasn't about him, it was about what I had to come to terms with and heal. In that moment, I was so grateful I had a father who believed in my art that way because I truly think if he reacted any other way it would have had the capacity to really hurt me. I know that's also just my experience and it's not any other writer’s experience but I don't think that should hold people back because if I were to allow myself to not say what I needed to say and not tell my story for fear of what my parents would think or what my community would think, I would be so far from myself. That’s denial, it's silence, and it's choosing fear. That fear is what manifests and controls you. That was, without a doubt, the hardest thing about this second book, being able to share it with the people who birthed me.
[UNPUBLISHED:] Do you have any advice for writers who hold back because they are afraid of what their family or friends will think?
[ISABELLA:] The most important thing, above all, is to honor yourself. When I say that I mean, honor your healing. The time it takes you to heal and don't push and trigger yourself so you can create, that is not productive. It's not fair to yourself. You might make something really beautiful, beautiful in terms of you feel it is what has been inside of you and you look at it and you're like, “This is what I've been trying to create.” Not beautiful in terms of what other people are going to define that as. But that being said, if you keep creating that way, triggering and not healing and shoving it all away and making art. You'll get to a point of pure burnout. That's a form of self denial, self hate, it's masochistic in a way. You'll get to this point where you're just like, “Nothing is good, I can't create anymore, it's not what I want.” That is what happened to me when I wrote this collection. I got home from Europe during the summer of 2019. While I was there, I wrote for three month and was writing from the darkest part inside of me every single day. I got home and I’ve never felt so removed from myself in my life. I’ve never felt more like I didn't recognize myself. I didn't know how to connect to people. That was when I started going to therapy and I started learning in therapy that even after publishing this book, I had not even begun to deal with what I've been going through. I didn't even feel it, I was numb, but I was writing about it. It was very weird for me to come to terms with that so I would say make sure, above all else, you are taking care of your mental health. Writing and creating in this climate in the world takes bravery, takes tenacity, and you will not get the respect that you're looking for because people don't realize the amount of weight it carries. If acceptance is what you're looking for, then check in real fast. That's what you need from yourself. It's hard, it's heavy. I remember my last day at USC, I went to my professor's office hours and he said, “Are you ready for how expensive this work is?” And I said, “What do you mean? Expensive like monetary?” He said, “No, I want you to think about that. How expensive this work really is.” I think about that every single day. Without a doubt, it is expensive, but the only way to get through it is to make sure you're communicating with yourself and you are there checking in and you're not putting the need of being seen and accepted over your healing.
[UNPUBLISHED:] What are your views on the importance of people of color sharing their stories through their writing, especially during times like these.
[ISABELLA:] I think the way they should do it is exactly when they feel ready to and how they want to. Something I actually think about a lot is the publishing industry, the bigger houses, are going to want you to curtail yourself so you fit into something they can sell. That is exactly what the problem is that's going on right now. If you are a writer, you're a writer, above anything else. If you're a black writer and you want to write something other than your race, please. That's what we should be telling everyone, write what it is that’s inside of you. I don’t think people need to curtail and exist within this little box because that is exactly what's wrong with this system and it's a denial of experience. It's a denial of what it means to expand as a human, and imagine, and grow. Because I'm a white writer and a white woman, and this book is about sexual assault, I do at times feel like I have myself in a box. But then I break it down and I think, “No, this is what came to me and this is what I want to express.” That is in a way, for me, my own way of saying fuck you to the system. Write the narrative, write the story, write the poem, write the speculative fiction, write the comic you feel inspired to write — that’s right for you and exists inside of you. Do not let anyone around you tell you that you have to curtail what the system of publishing wants you to be or speak in a way that's acceptable because there are people out there that want to hear exactly what is going on inside of you. If you're thinking about it, there's someone else who wants to hear it.
[UNPUBLISHED:] Do you have any advice for people who want to self publish their work, but don't know where to start?
[ISABELLA:] You don't have to have everything ready before you start thinking about the process. You can completely begin to plant seeds inside of yourself and manifest things without having the book ready to go. Research the platforms that exist and then think about what it is about this platform you like. I published with Kindle Direct Publishing. Next would be to try to set some intentions for yourself like, “What's my purpose of publishing this?” You don't have to have the answers right away, just maybe three or four things. What is it? What is it you want to convey? Who would your audience be? If you have already started writing, just compile a document of your writing, just putting it all together so it exists in one place. After that I would say the number one thing would be commitment and self deadlines. I put everything on one document and I would look at it every single morning, just move things around and then literally from there that's when the book starts forming. I think another thing that's very useful that I don't have that I wish I did is have a friend who knows how to do graphic design. Maybe you want to support someone with monetary means or trade labor. If you do know how to use InDesign that's really helpful because I have friends who will write their books and they'll already have it formatted so they can just upload it to these sites once it's done but for me, I just use a Google Doc, I'm kind of old fashioned that way. I did write literally all of my poems in journals then I transcribed them. I'm literally a 75 year old poet but whatever. Don't overwhelm yourself with a checklist, it's a fluid experience. If you want to research one day for like 20 minutes but you're not feeling it and then you want to start compiling and composing and transcribing, let the experience be freeform.
[UNPUBLISHED:] What is your favorite thing about being an author?
[ISABELLA:] I would say the number one thing I like is the people I meet. It's very weird because I don't even like thinking about what it is that I do. I don't think about it like I am an author, I just think about it in terms of what I like to do. I really like the feeling of holding something I made, that's my favorite feeling ever. Another thing I love is the feeling of holding a book after writing it for four years. Before anything else, it would be the people I meet and the conversations that are held about writing a book and the experience. Also what other people have lived, learning about that and hearing it because it's a way to connect, that's what books are, you just start igniting fires.
[UNPUBLISHED:] Are there any writers who inspire you and your work?
[ISABELLA:] I love Maggie Nelson so much. She wrote Bluets, I read it when I went to Croatia. I was on a little boat and the color blue was everywhere. I'm also crazy about the poet Matthew Dickman. I looked up to him all through university and I DMed him on Instagram and said, “Would you read my manuscript and blurb me?”, and he did and it was crazy. I love his work, I love the pure, honest, rancid way he just gets you. It's kind of nasty how cool he is. Kim Addonizio, she's an Italian poet. She has a collection called Tell Me and another called What is This Thing Called Love. I am obsessed with her, it feels like you're listening to a harmonica when she's reading poetry. Terrence Hayes, he wrote American Sonnets for my Past and Future Assassin. Also, Robert Stein, he has a collection called Crush. That one was huge, it revolutionized how I view poetry because he's so narrative but also you really don't know what's happening. You don't know what's true and what’s not. That's the biggest thing, it's like a dream world.
[UNPUBLISHED:] Where do you see yourself in five years?
[ISABELLA:] I definitely want to have written another book. I actually would like to be living in New York, and I'm studying for or already have my MFA. Potentially be getting my PhD. I want to do those things but I also think, will they happen? I want to, tentatively, be a professor of creative writing. I love connecting to writers and I think there aren't enough people in this world who are not only working in academia but also working in the community and empowering the youth. I can imagine what it would look like being a professor but I know my purpose in my life is to just be a resource for people who are looking to write, or be artists of any sort.
[UNPUBLISHED:] What do you want people to take away from your work after they finish a book of yours?
[ISABELLA:] It's very interesting, I had someone reach out to me about a day ago and say they didn't understand the poetry in hours inside out. I've been thinking about that a lot. What does it mean to understand this book? I think the main thing I want people to take away is sitting with the uncomfortability of the topics I'm exploring because I didn't write this book to be understood. I wrote it to represent my experience. I don’t want people to dissect every single line and make sure it has a literal meaning. If anything, I want the reader to just sit with it and feel. I want you to see it in your own head and imagine your own world and feel what that language is conveying. I had one of my friends read this manuscript and his response was, “It's very knotty, but not bad, naughty, but literally string tied in knots. It's a knotty collection and I’m having a hard time getting away” and I was like, perfect. That's exactly what I want. Just to sit and hold space for it.
[UNPUBLISHED:] You have recently published your second book, what’s next for you?
[ISABELLA:] I would say the number one thing I really wanted to start doing more actively is workshopping — holding space for young writers and young voices. Not even just young voices but people who want to connect, share, and come together. Because of COVID-19, that is being affected slightly because I was going to start doing this in a physical sense, but we are going to take that to an online space. My friend and I are working on a line of T-shirts and hoodies that will have the poetry on it. That'll be out probably by the end of this year. Also, my partner is a film director so we've been making spoken word videos, we've made one and we're going to make at least three more so I'm going to start posting more videos that have the poems shown through a visual way. Also, another book, in two years hopefully.